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وِکیٖپیٖڈیا پؠٹھٕ، اَکھ آزاد اِنسایکلوپیٖڈیا

Merged from Talk:Main Page

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Administrator Proposal

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Angela,

I propose Raman Kaul as Administrator. He is knowledgeable about the scripts as well as the langugage.

I am the person who has created most of the pages of the Kashmiri Wikipedia.

-November 7, 2004

  • This has already been proposed. I'm not sure though, I thought Raman Kaul created most of the pages? -- Shuhul Sagar (Akka Akka)

Script Resolution

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  • I propose a dual-script (Devnagari-Nastaleeq) interface and I have the time and resources to create it. Roman as an "intermediate" script for "automatic conversion" is not viable because the Roman used for such a "conversion" is unintelligible. Moreover, it is neither possible nor needed to have an "automatic conversion" between the scripts. Contrary to claims made on this page by Bbbbbbbbb and Akka Akka, there is no software that does it satisfactorily, not to speak of it being planned or approved by Wikipedia, or it being available in "two months".
  • Another possibility is to have a separate wikipedia for the two scripts.

rk_kaul

If you have the resources to create it, then why so far have you only written one or two pages in Nastaleeq? In addition, how is this possible if as you claim Nastaleeq is not supported by Unicode (which is false)?

  • I have listed the Nastaleeq glyphs not supported by Unicode yet in the discussion below. In the meantime we can try and do whatever is possible with the available glyphs. Although I can use Nastaleeq, Devnagari comes naturally to me, and is phonetically more suited to the language, IMO. Still I keep adding whatever I can, in Nastaleeq. If both options remain open, there will be other people too who can add content - rk_kaul

I never claimed there is existing software that can convert satisfactorily between two scripts, only that it is working on.

  • Bbbbbbbbb wrote "In two months time, there will be code in the software to convert between all three scripts, and an article you write in Devangri will be converted to Roman text automatically, but when you view it it will be in Devanagri, but another viewer can view it in Nastaleeq if they want, and it will have the same text." From what I know about the nature of both scripts, this doesn't seem possible without manual transliteration. - rk_kaul


Perhaps since others have been invited to contribute, I will quote from something said by rk kaul: "3. Arabic and Devnagari scripts have different audiences so it is no use having the content synchronized. " This indicates that he is not interested for the Kashmiri Wikipedia becoming an NPOV encyclopaedic resource but rather wants separate resources for two different opinions.

  • This is just the statement of a fact. It is practically not possible to have the content synchronized. It is however possible and desirable to keep content in both scripts alive and populated.



I was desysopped for simply adding the text to the mainpage to indicate that the issue should be discussed here, and protecting it to further edit wars like in the recently past. If rk_kaul is as he claims willing and able to create in both scripts, and he does this, then I have no problem with it and no conversion is needed. --Akka Akka 16:40, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

  • Thank you, Akka, for your understanding and support.- rk_kaul
    • Hi rk kaul, I see that I have been de-sysopped for complaints against me. I was wondering, did you make these complaints? I realise I replaced the mainpage with what is now at KS Roman, but I decided almost immediately that it was not a good solution and replaced it with what is there now, and protected it to avoid more edit wars. So far this was my only action as sysop, if you havve a problem with me I hope we can work it out so we can work on this Wikipedia together, even if I'm not a sysop. --akka 20:58, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
      • Hi Akka, sure we can work together. I look forward to your contributions. That is what Wikipedia is about. - rk_kaul


Here's the latest wikipedia figures for languages from the subcontinent:

Tamil - 450 Urdu - 151 Hindi - 282 Kashmiri - 161 Sanskrit - 1,055

At the current rate, Kashmiri will very soon overtake Hindi! --User 130......
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I think it is an excellent idea to input material in all the three scripts. It will also encourage readers to read material in scripts that they are not much familiar with. By using an open policy, we will strengthen the cause of Kashmiri, which I trust is everyone's aim. --User 68........

I agree with User 68. Judging from past actions of Bbbbbb and Akka Akka, it is quite obvious that their actions (if they are two different individuals) can best be described as destructive. Let all the 4 options be given (Devnagri, Arabic, Roman and Sharda) and let the visitors to the Wiki site decide on their own which font they want to choose. Isn't what Wiki is all about? - Sunil

  • Hi Sunil, bbbbbbbbbbbbb was converting pages to different scripts because he said to have a plan for conversion. I believe that this was true, but maybe he forgot and left now. I don't see, however, what I do wrong. I admit I reverted the main page once, but I replaced it afterwards with how it was already except a note to discuss it here. I know I have reverted Kaul's change to the English letters for Kashmiri page, but this page merely describes the correspondences between the Devnagari, Roman, and Nastaleeq characters we have used here. If you go to KS Roman for example, and open in a separate window the English letters for Kashmiri page, you see it is easy to convert even with your hand, and it makes perfect sense. I haven't made much other changes except at this page, and I noted already I want a good solution for compromise, and Kaul says above the satisfactory solution for me, and so far bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb is gone. Also if reverting to script different to a previous version is wrong, it seems more like there are much more people here who are bad, but I think it is hardly true because everybody has a good intention it seems, they just don't know to let things stay while they talk the problem. --akka 21:12, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)


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Akka Akka, whosoever you are, even if you are a clone of BS:
It is not possible to keep the content in different scripts "synchronized" because of the following reasons:
1. Unicode-Arabic script does not have all the requied glyphs needed for Koshur. You will have to write it by hand and scan it in. So, automatic conversion is impossible.

    • If this is true, how is it I can write Koshur text in Unicode Arabic? What is missing? Do you know Arabic script for Koshur?
      • Visit [1] .
        • That says nothing about Unicode Arabic! All Kashmiri letters for Arabic encoded in Unicode Arabic.
          • OK, then tell me the decimal equivalent in Unicode of some such letters: The vav with rounded "tail", the longer hamza, etc. The tdil page lists all the Arabic characters used for Kashmiri, all are not necessarily encoded in Unicode. People like Bbbbbbbbbbbbbbb who could get this done are busy disrupting other people's efforts. Your page "English letters for Kashmiri" does not mean anything. It just equates some Hindi letters with their English equivalents, which has nothing to do with Kashmiri. Still I am leaving it unchanged for now. Maybe you will yourself the sense of linking it to the right page, as I had done.
            • 1st one: 1732 2nd one: Well, it is not encoded separately, but it is encoded for above and below the alef: 1650 1651 These are all encoded in Unicode already. The page on Wikipedia:English letters for Kashmiri equates: all Unicode Devnagari characters with English equivalents, and some of these English equivalents with Arabic equivalents (but only as applies to Kashmiri). What are you talking about this "right page"? There is more than one system used for Roman alphabet for Kashmiri. Again, you attack others, and this is not good! It does not show maturity. Nothing gets accomplished acting like children, and saying "I am right, there is no discussing it. We will do it my way." So please stop for a moment, and take time to discuss these issues in detail. If we do this and do not resort to childish behaviour as done already before, we can solve these disagreements quickly. --Akka Akka 21:37, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
              • 1732 is not exactly the way it is used in Kashmiri. To see the actual shape of the waw and hamza, see section (iv) on http://tdil.mit.gov.in/KashmiriDesignGuideOct02.pdf (page 81, right column). Also there is another kind of "ye" which is a circle below instead of two dots below.


2. Automatic conversion is impossible also because of the different ways Devnagari and Arabic scripts work.

    • Automatic conversion is possible, although the different types of scripts, because even if phonemic conversion is not possible (which I see no reason not to be), conversion on a morphemic level would work as well though it would be harder to develop.


3. Arabic and Devnagari scripts have different audiences so it is no use having the content synchronized.

    • The audience of the English Wikipedia is widely vary, from Muslim to Christian to Hindu to Atheist to Buddhist to Sikh to Jewish to Jain, and in many different countries around the world. If there is no reason to start separate Wikipedia for separate audience without language barrier, why in this case? We do not have the different language in our situation, just different script. Also, having these two very different audience helps much the building of NPOV encyclopedia (means it does not take opinion). If only Hindu or only Muslim users contribute to en:, it may be very different to what it is with the diversity of now, and may be articles is not NPOV.


4. The Roman script you people are using is not actual Roman script used for KAshmiri, it has been obtained by using a program to convert the Devnagari to Roman, and it will never translate to correct form of Arabic script.

    • I am aware it is not "actual roman script used for Kashmiri". It is design specially for going between structures of Devnagari and Arabic scripts, I have seen it before in email. Of course, we should have Kashmiri Wikipedia in actual roman script as well, but there is more technical difficulty to accommodate the structure of three very different script instead of just two, and new interscript has to be designed for it, or programmer will have to spend much more time busy programming rules for conversion between script than was now.



So, let us all be creative instead of destructive. You add your content wherever you can, we add our content wherever we can. That is the only way our Koshur language will be strengthened. We have created some blank pages for you in Arabic and even added a few sentences. If we can contribute in a positive way to each other's content, let us do that. Let us not keep redirecting, renaming and changing the script of pages.

    • I have never said which script I use. Actually I know all. As I say before, it is not destructive to convert pages into different script, any more than it is to translate pages into another language.



I am a native Kashmiri speaker who knows all scripts used to write it, and can challenge anybody to contest it.

    • Just because it is said you aren't in middle of a fight, does not mean I do not believe you are! I think both of you are much alike, but cannot see it because the small difference which gets inbetween.


user:rk_kaul 16:54, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
PS:(I don't want to count all the b's so I call the person BS -- anyway the person is BSing all the time)

    • I have noted before, please stop personal attacks against Bbbbbbbbb. It is show how mature you are, if you can stop this way.


AKKA AKKA I request you please let us survive on the internet..Our race and culture is already getting extinct and oUr culture is on Dialysys..THis may be some simpleto for you..But for us it is oxygen mask in space...

I request you on behalf of all Kashmiris please leave us alone here

  • Hi "Kashqar", I am not sure what the problem is since it is bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb who has been doing the problem editing and making arguments where it isn't nessecary, but I also notice you vandalised my page with some very obscene stuffs. You should know this sort of behaviour is not OK on Wikipedia, please stop, although it's fine to make good contributions. --akka 16:39, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC) (Shuhul Sagar)

Bad behaviour

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Now both of you are fighting, and it is turning the Kashmiri Wikipedia into a war zone, which is not good!

Bbbbbbbbb and rk_kaul have both made good points, but now it seems both are stopping civilised discussion and resorting to personal attacks and revert wars.

rk_kaul has made a good point about him creating pages and Bbbbbbbbb changing their script. However rk_kaul says this is vandalism, and I disagree. Since there is no set policy for this Wikipedia yet regarding different scripts, it is not vandalism, but rather than continuing to do so Bbbbbbbbb should discuss it here first (and if this happens, rk_kaul should stop reverting pages and participate in discussion here).

Also, rk_kaul, you have to realise that one of the main points of Wikipedia is that others will edit your content, and you cannot tell them not to.

However, Bbbbbbbbb's contributions are disruptive to rk_kaul, so it seems that rk_kaul is frustrated because he is afraid that if he creates a new page, Bbbbbbbbb will convert it, and he will not be able to contribute any more because he doesn't know how to read this roman script style used by Bbbbbbbbb.

rk_kaul and Bbbbbbbbb have both said that each other cannot speak koshura zabaana. This is an unnessecary personal attack, and both should stop.

Bbbbbbbbb has made a good point about conversion, and about political neutrality. However, there is no reason pages cannot be converted at a later date (when the new software is implemented), at least none that Bbbbbbbbb has mentioned yet. As far as political neutrality goes, I really don't know what to say to you Bbbbbbbbb - many of the newer Indic language Wikipedias could be in one of two (or in some cases 3 or 4) different scripts, but the contributors only know one and have only written in that.

And what is the point of political neutrality when the chances that a new Wikipedian will be able to write Kashmiri content in the Roman alphabet properly according to the scheme you use are very low?

Anyhow, what I think both of you need to do is to take a rest of a couple of days from this Wikipedia. When you get back, you both need to continue discussing this issue here until it is solved, with no personal attacks, and while you do it, don't keep engaging in revert wars around the Wikipedia.

Please, let's try to keep things civil. --Akka Akka 16:14, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Kashmiri script problems

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Now what is your problem? It seems you are not a writer or speaker of Kashmiri language, or even if you are you do not know how to write it in any script. So, the only thing you can do is disrupt other people's efforts. I have created the original content in Devnagari and you have no right to disrupt it. If you know anything write it separately on the Nastaleeq page (I have started a template for you -- though I had to struggle through it), or if the only script you know is Roman script, create a new page for that. Please do not disrupt my work again and again or I will report your vandalism.

rk_kaul, a registered user

  • You have not attempted to engage in meaningful discussion on this issue. If you do not attempt meaningful discussion, this can be considered vandalism on YOUR part. --Bbbbbbbbb 03:50, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • If you know even a word of Kashmiri language, why don't you add your own content, in whatever script you know, instead of disrupting other people's creative efforts. Do you even know what is written on these pages? If this is not meaningful discussion, what is?
      • You have not responded to the points I have made regarding this issue. Failure to do so means you have not engaged in meaningful discussion. --Bbbbbbbbb 18:35, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
        • Well, the original text has been written by me and is intended to be in Devnagari. Nastaleeq, Devnagari and if you want Roman too, can co-exist. You can create separate pages in different scripts or if you cannot think of something creative you can copy my stuff into your own script but use different pages for it. Please do not keep bungling the original text.--rk_kaul
          • If you are not willing to respond to the points I made below, I am not willing to listen to what you have to say.
            • See my responses to your points below. I believe in "live and let live" and you are neither creating anything yourself nor letting others create. I created links for you to add Nastaleeq and Roman content. Please display your "knowledge and creativity" on those pages.
              • Who said I can read Nastaleeq, or that I can write roman script? I can only write Kashmiri in devanagari.
                • I can see that. See my responses below.
                  • I have saved your Roman text under KS_Roman so you can convert it later into Nastaleeq. Please, please, do not change this arrangement. :) rk_kaul
                    • BS, I can see that you don't know the language, and don't know any of the scripts used to write it. I am not engaging in any more discussions with a person who only pretends to know the language and keeps destroying other's efforts. Your only problem seems to be with Devnagari text. I know your type, the people who are not creative but insist on destroying what exists. This is the attitude that Kashmir and the Kashmiri language have been suffering due to. - rk_kaul

If you cannot be constructive, please do not be destructive. If you can add text in Nastaleeq (or Sharda or Devnagari), please do so. If you are not capable of doing so, please do not change the content of existing content to some meaningless jibberish.

rk_kaul, a registered user

  • I am not the only user with the opinion that things should be written in the Roman alphabet BECAUSE IT WILL MAKE CONVERSION EASIER in the next couple of months - one other user expressed the same opinion below.
    • Who said a CONVERSION is needed or planned. Even if you need it, you can have it in parallell. You can copy it into new pages in Nastaleeq or Devnagari or Roman or whatever. Why do you have to replace the Devnagari text.
      • A conversion is needed to keep the Devanagari and Nastaleeq versions of every page synchronized. Other Wikipedias that have used two scripts have had the problem that the content is vastly different and often one script falls into a state of disrepair.
        • If you don't know Nastaleeq, then let me inform you this: Special characters of Nastaleeq that are needed to write Kashmiri are not even part of Unicode yet, they are only available in manual writing (kaagaz-qalam), so forget about "automatic" conversion. If the inactivity of Nastaleeq script users causes it to be in a state of "disrepair" or "inactivity" that doesn't mean Devnagari users have to suffer or get their text made unavailable. You can still have the text in parallel on ohter pages and convert them whenever you want.
          • Your condescention is noted and ignored. Nastaleeq does not use those special characters like you say, what you are talking about is only a matter of calligraphy. There are nastaleeq fonts available online for unicode for example Nafees Nastaleeq (Nafees Nastaleeq only has Urdu letters though so some of the letters aren't in it; however there is other Nastaleeq fonts you can use to write Kashmiri in Unicode).
            • Can you name any such Nastaleeq font that has the extra glyphs needed for Kashmiri? Do you even know what are the extra vowels and consonants in Kashmiri that are not available in Urdu script? Do you even know what you are talking about? Anyway, when you don't know Nastaeeq, you are not expected to know what you are talking about? Instead of vandalizing here, why don't you concentrate on getting this fixed?
              • Oops, I take that back, Nafees Nastaleeq does appear to support Kashmiri. Yes, I do know what they are, but I really don't recall there being any extra consonants? Actually Nafees Nastaleeq doesn't support tatweel, or combining vowel diacritics (well, it does, but it can't do it so it looks like correct Nastaleeq). Anyhow, just because I never learnt to write in Nastaleeq (but I can read it) doesn't mean I'm not allowed to know anything about it.
  • Roman text is hardly meaningless gibberish. Just because you are unable to read it doesn't mean it isn't readable - if you actually tried, you'd find that reading it is quite easy, and you can find help with it at Wikipedia:English letters for Kashmiri.
    • It IS. I am a native speaker of the language, and half of the words do not make any sense. The conventions followed for Roman scripting are different. Some characters are showing as boxes.
      • Did you visit Wikipedia:English letters for Kashmiri? The system here is not the normal Roman alphabet Kashmiri writing, it is a different system so that there is 1-to-1 correspondences in Devanagari and Nastaleeq.
        • It is not readable. None of the sentences makes any sense if it is read by a native Kashmiri speaker. Who authored Wikipedia:English letters for Kashmiri? You? Well I have already seen your command of Kashmiri language.
          • "None of the sentences makes any sense" - it is not my fault if your font does not support letters with macrons. Did you read Wikipedia:English letters for Kashmiri? And please do not insult my Kashmiri - your writing tells me you obviously were not educated in Kashmiri-medium school, and that you probably learned Kashmiri from your wife or husband instead of as a child.
            • Yes, none of the sentences makes any sense. Send one sentence by itself to any Kashmiri speaking person, if you know any, and you will find out. Oh, really, so there are Kashmiri medium schools too? Where are they, in Muzaffarabad where nobody speaks Kashmiri? At least in Srinagar, Sopore, Baramulla and other towns of Kashmir where I have spent my life there are none. And for your information, Kashmiri is not even taught in schools; the medium of education in Kashmir is Urdu or English. Kashmiri is my native tongue that I speak at home. I did not translate the English pages to Kashmiri without a deep knowledge of both languages. All you are doing is converting text and vandalizing. Did you add even one word of your own?
              • Makes perfect sense to me. Unfortunately this school was in the US! It's very sad that in the US you can get bilingual education in Kashmiri, but in Kashmir you cannot... And I added small amounts of text, but not very much because I was planning to do it after I converted existing pages, which obviously isn't as easy as I thought. And how am I vandalising? You are making contributions, and I am making further changes to them. When you revert my changes, that is actually vandalism because you are erasing perfectly valid edits.
                • Oh, really? Where in US? Can you stop making your stories?
                  • Montana. It starts with all core classes in Kashmiri, and gradually shifts to all core classes in English except a Heritage Language Maintenance class which is basically just a Kashmiri reading and writing class.
  • As I have said before this is a TEMPORARY SOLUTION. In two months time, there will be code in the software to convert between all three scripts, and an article you write in Devangri will be converted to Roman text automatically, but when you view it it will be in Devanagri, but another viewer can view it in Nastaleeq if they want, and it will have the same text.
    • Why do you need a TEMPORARY SOLUTION, when both (or all three types pages can coexist NOW). When are your two months going to end, and who is working on this software?
      • A temporary solution is needed because it will make conversion easier when the software is available.
        • Well, as I told you conversion is not possible at this point. Even if it is, you can convert it from Devnagari-Roman-Nastaleeq at that time, which should not be hard for the "software" you are talking about. Untill then let it remain in a state that makes sense to those who can speak Kashmiri and read Devnagari. In the form you are putting it, it doesn't make sense to anybody.
          • As I told you, you are wrong. It is more difficult from a programming standpoint to convert from Devanagari to Roman to Nastaleeq. If you want, you can write content in Devanagari, and I can convert it to Roman alphabet for you manually. Otherwise, any new page you write now I will leave alone until conversion software is ready (but I will not stop reverting existing pages). If you had a good font which has macrons and breves and other letters used here, for example Tahoma, Arial Unicode MS, Code2000, and such other fonts, you would easily be able to read these pages. It makes perfect sense to me.
            • I have all these fonts and still the text does not make any sense. For example, what does "akha" and "chu" mean?
              • vikipīḍiyā chu akha vāryāhana zabānana man̄za -> विकिपीडिया छु अख वार्याहन ज़बानन मंज
                • . Well, this is what I mean. Your transliteration makes the text meaningless. "chu" and छु are different words. "chu" means nothing in Kashmiri. अख and "akha" are different Kashmiri words with different meanings. So, when you change the text, it means nothing. Just for satifyig your own conscience, if you have one, send one sentence to a Kashmiri speaking person. If you don't know one then what are you doing here?
                  • How so? It makes perfect sense to me. I asked my sister, and it makes sense to her (though she said it is not intuitive)
  • It is destructive of you to keep changing pages back to Devanagri. It is much more difficult, and takes up more system resources, to convert from Devanagri to Nastaleeq than to convert from Roman to Nastaleeq or vice versa or Roman to Devanagri and vice versa.
    • I have taken time to translate the original pages into Kashmiri language and added some Kashmiri text myself. Is that destructive or constructive. You are replacing my text everytime by meaningless characters. That is destructive.
      • Wikipedia is all about editing other people's content. I have only edited content you have created. That is not destructive.
        • Well, if you refuse to understand logic, let us keep playing this game.
          • If you refuse to understand genuine goodwill and efforts at technical solutions to real-world script issues, let us keep playing this game.
            • You were looking for meaningful discussion, you got it. Now if still refuse to see logic then I don't know what your real intention is. By the way, if Roman-Devanagri and Roman Nastaleeq transliteration is possible, so is Devanagri-Nastaleeq and Devnagari-Roman-Nastaleeq. So, this meaningless "intermediate" script is unnecessary.
              • Transliterating between Nastaleeq and Devanagari is of course possible (which I noted before), but it puts much more load on the server and requires more programming. For example, if there is a page written *about* Devanagari, but it is 100% in Devanagari, how can you convert it to Nastaleeq but keep the characters that *should* be in Devanagari intact? There are many more problems such as this that are very very easily solved by using an interlanguage (rather, an "interscript"), and converting articles on demand, so that a new user who comes to this site never even sees a single word in Roman letters, only in Nastaleeq or Devanagari (the first page would be a page for them to choose their script, and a cookie would be deposited). Users would also type articles in Devanagari or Nastaleeq, and they would be converted automatically before being added to the database. As you can see this is much easier not only to program, but it is much easier to figure.
                • Well, leave the text intact until your "software" is ready.
                  • Why should I?
  • Please refrain from making such deconstructive edits to Wikipedia.

Seen above
rk_kaul

Did you not see the notice saying to write in the Roman alphabet BECAUSE IT WILL MAKE CONVERSION EASIER down the line?

  • Mr 24.251.242.236: To convert the contributions of others into a script not meant for this Wikipedia is vandalism. This Wikipedia is supposed to be in either Arabic or Devanagari scripts alone. The objective of the Wikipedia project is to give space to the traditional language writing, in the scripts that are traditionally used. You are doing a disservice and, already, due to what you have done, contributors have stopped adding material.
    • "not meant for this Wikipedia"? I am the first logged-in user to make contributions. I have made the decision that we should, for the moment, use Roman alphabets because that means it will be easier down the line (ie, in a couple of months) to have a Wikipedia with unified content in both Nastaleeq and Devanagari scripts.
    • There is no document anywhere on any Wikipedia that states that the objective of Wikipedia is to use traditional writing for a language - see http://ku.wikipedia.org/ , http://zh-min-man.wikipedia.org/ , http://mn.wikipedia.org/ , http://tr.wikipedia.org/ , and quite a few others.
    • Also, if you are so intent on traditional writing, you should not be using Devanagari OR Nastaleeq, but instad Sharada.
    • You have said that contributors have stopped adding material - that was already the case before I started converting pages. --Bbbbbbbbb 17:34, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
      • I agree. Roman letters is more neutral, and also it makes it easier to convert later between the two later!! --63.226.18.125 01:04, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree. If someone wants to add content in nastaleeq script, let them do that in addition to the content in devanagari script. Please do not convert existing devnagari content to Roman script, which makes it unintelligible. Moreover there is another wiki site http://ks.wikipedia.org/wiki/كشميري that can be used for posting nastaleeq content. If you cannot post nastaleeq content, please do not vandalize devanagari content.

  • Vandalize? I am not vandalising. I spent two hours converting pages. You are not a registered user, but I am. I have been a member at other Wikipedias for over a year.


In my view, on this site one should use Devanagari as well as Persian scripts depending on one's facility. But certainly it is not appropriate to use Roman script since that is used by no groups of people in Kashmir to write Kashmiri.

The idea of Wikipedia is to give place to write language content in the manner that is traditionally done. SO PLEASE LET US NOT CONVERT THIS INTO A ROMAN SCRIPT SITE. Because if that was the purpose we could use Roman script for all of the world's languages.

It is not just you. This page is written entirely in Devanagari, because the present author used Devanaagari. Any author who knows how to add content in any of the other two scripts can add their script.

Last time I checked, Kashmiri was written in 2 different scripts regularly, and a third historical script was still used on many occasions.

Akka Akka (also known as Bbbbbbbbb and 24.251.242.236) has now been desysopped following complaints about his behaviour. I have posted to the Wikipedia mailing list seeking comments from other people who may be able to advise on the problems here. Angela 15:20, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Copy of Urdu ??

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Ok this is a nice copy of ur:wikipedia ,but please edit this copy and remove word urdu from it and replace it with word kashmiri
Thanks WiseSabre

Deprecated projects

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Please remove the links to nupedia.com and sep11.wikipedia.org from your main page. These are no longer supposed to be linked to (check 95% of the other Wikipedias, including en:), and one of them hasn't even worked at all for a long time. Thank you. 11:18, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Kashmiri and War

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Its seems like the word kashmiri is synonymous with war. So thats where everyeffort sums upto. I was so excited when i saw that wikipedia had a Kashmiri section. But unfortunately all i found was arguments and discussions that have summed upto nothing. Yes, I Thank you one and all for all the interest that you've shown. But in case anyone is still as interested as i am in getting this space working please contact me at nevermesswithakashmiri@yahoo.com . Thank You[2]

Index

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I had modified a Bengoli Scripted navigator to Devnagari and have placed it in the devnagari scripted wikipedias. The template of the same is present here at Template:Index i.e.

فرما:Index

I hope it can be of use here. By the way, I am very sorry to see this unproductive discussion going on here. My mothertongue is written in 20 scripts and we have 3 unicodes present for the language. At times, we do get intimidated with all these options and management of these heritages but in the end what really matters is what you achieve after using them. This wikipedia had nearly as many articles as Hindi at a time and now its about one tenth of that of Hindi. Please collaborate and move forward In case I have spoken somthing which is provocative to any one here, I am sorry for that --Eukesh 00:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC). .

Changes in the front page

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Devnagari has been enabled in this wikipedia. An index has also been placed in the front page. I am trying to ensure that all the scripts can be directly enabled. I hope that Arabic script will be enabled soon as well.--Eukesh 15:57, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Idea

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I'm sorry for just coming into the Kashmiri Wikipedia, but I have an idea. Why not making this wikipedia like the kazakh one? Please look here. If you look at the top right, you will notice that you can get it in Russian script, English script and Arabic script! You could do the same thing with the scripts used on the Kashmiri Wikipedia. -- 85.226.192.227 12:17, 16 December 2006 (UTC) Thanks a zillions. I will make sure that the suggestion that you gave will be implemented.--Eukesh 17:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Well this option was pursued earlier but some intolerant users disagreed because they said it was "impossible" to convert. This is a complete falsehood. Can be converted very easily.

For your information, official script for Kashmiri and one used by nearly every Kashmiri person, including Kashmiri Hindu, is Arabic alphabet. Even majority of persons (maybe several thousands?) who uses Devanagri script, is literate and able to read and write Arabic. To have this a biscriptal Wikipedia seems useless.

Besides, I request that you remove or at least make not-default the option for typing here in Devanagri. Certain persons wishes to type this language in Latin alphabet as well so it is confusing, besides it shows a political bias. If even Indian government says Kashmiri is written in Arabic alphabet, you can imagine what kind of radical political views persons who use Devnagari hold, and by making by default to type in Devnagari, you make it seem that this site has similar views which is hopefully not the aim. --24.251.240.229 11:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

व्ह्य् व्हेन् ई व्रिते थिस् इस् इत् चोमिन्ग् ओउत् इन् (ई थिन्क्) कश्मिरि? थे अबोभे दिस्चुस्सिओन्स् अरे अल्ल् व्रित्तेन् इन् एन्ग्लिश्! अन्द् नोव् थे पुन्च्तुअतिओन् इस् गोइन्ग् इन् स्त्रन्गे प्लचेस्, अन्द् इत्स् अल्ल् शोविन्ग् उप् बच्क्वर्द्. स्त्रन्गे. उशॅऋ:अवॄ॰ः (ऍण्वी़ई)

Kashmiri script information

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Kashmiri has been written in the following scripts:

Sharada script

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The original script of Kashmiri is Sharada. Old manuscripts are available in this script. This script has become obsolete now, and has a restricted use. It is used in writing of horoscopes by Kashmiri Pandits. This script does not represent the signs for all the sounds and other phonetic characteristics of Kashmiri. No special diacritic signs are being used to represent the peculiar sounds of Kashmiri.

Roman script

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The use of Roman for Kashmiri started with the European scholars who transliterated certain texts from Kashmiri into this script. It is widely used in citing the original literary pieces in the works related to literature; and also in the language data in the linguistic works related to the language written in English. No standardisation in the use of the Roman script for Kashmiri has taken place so far. Different scholars have used different diacritic signs for representing the sound system of the Kashmiri language. The Roman script continues to be used in citing data from Kashmiri in the books written in English related to Kashmiri language and literature. In linguistic studies, there is a convention of using Roman phonetic script. Different scholars are using different types of conventions not similar to those suggested in the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) to facilitate easy printing. Though the pace of the linguistic works in Kashmiri is quite slow, there is a need for standardising the Roman phonetic symbols for representing the speech sounds and other phonetic characteristics of the language.

Devanagari Script

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  • Devanagari Script: The Devanagri script is mostly used in the research works related to the Kashmiri language

carried out in Hindi for the citation of the data from Kashmiri. It is also used in certain Hindu religious texts, and in a few periodicals like Koshur Samachar, Kashyap Samachar etc. The Devanagri script requires modifications for writing Kashmiri texts. Different types of additional diacritics are used to represent the peculiar speech sounds of Kashmiri. The diacritics suggested by the Central Hindi Directorate in their Parivardit Devanagri have undergone various changes. The signs are not uniformly used in the printing of the Kashmiri text. The VIKALP (Visthapit Kashmiri Lakhak Parishad) - an association of Kashmiri scholars have suggested modifications earlier. Two main journals cited above published from Delhi and Jammu are currently using special symbols to represent additional speech sounds and phonetic characteristics of the language. Efforts are on to reach a consensus on it. Under a proposal of Government of India, the Northern Regional Language Centre conducted a workshop for the standardisation of the Devanagri script for Kashmiri. Based on the recommendation of the workshop, Penfosys, Pune have prepared a software which is expected to be used in the publications using the Devanagri script.

Perso-arabic script

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The official script of the Kashmiri language recognised by the Jammu & Kashmir Academy of Art, Culture and Languages is based on the Perso-Arabic script using additional diacritic marks for representing certain peculiar characteristics of the Kashmiri language. The additional diacritic marks had been suggested for writing Kashmiri vowels and consonants and for representing the phonetic characteristics of palatalization of the language. This script is widely used in the publications of the Academy and other private and governmental publications. Koul (1999) has suggested certain measures for the standardization of the use of the Perso-Arabic script for Kashmiri. The conventions of the script need to be reviewed for bringing in the uniformity so that the script represents the characteristics of the language.

For futher information, see here.

ایران و کشمیر

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بسیار خرسندم که می‌بینم دوستان کشمیری‌ام هم ویکیپدیای خود را دارند. امیدوارم در ساخت آن پیروز باشید. اگر زبان من را می‌فهمید و شباهت زیاد است من هم می‌توانم مشارکت کنم. من در ویکیپدیای فارسی هستم. 61.8.140.20 १५:१८, २१ April २००८ (UTC)

Message from Nepal Bhasa Wikipedia

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Nepal Bhasa wikipedia has recently started developing here . We would like to increase co-ordination between the two wikipedia, share resources as well as to learn from this version. If someone is interested, please visit Nepal Bhasa Embassy. Plus, please consider working here as well. Thank you. --Eukesh

विकिपिडिया: देवनागरी टेम्प्लेट परियोजना

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  • Please visit this page for better co-ordination between Devnagari wikipediae as well as to increase the overall efficiency of these wikipediae.--Eukesh 20:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Betawiki: better support for your language in MediaWiki

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Dear community. I am writing to you to promote a special wiki called Betawiki. This wiki facilitates the localisation (l10n) of the MediaWiki interface. You may have changed many messages here to use your language in the interface, but if you would log in to for example the English language Wiktionary, you would not be able to use the interface as well translated as here. Infact, of the 1798 messages in the core of MediaWiki, 0 messages have been translated. Betawiki also supports the translation of messages of almost 80 extensions, with about 1050 messages.

If you wish to contribute to better support of your language in MediaWiki, as well as for many MediaWiki extensions, please visit Betawiki, create an account and request translator priviledges. You can see the current status of localisation of your language on meta and do not forget to get in touch with others that may already be working on your language on Betawiki.

If you have any further questions, please let me know on my talk page on Betawiki. We will try and assist you as much as possible, for example by importing all messages from a local wiki for you to start with, if you so desire.

You can also find us on the Freenode IRC network in the channel #mediawiki-i18n where we would be happy to help you get started.

Thank you very much for your attention and I do hope to see some of you on Betawiki soon! Cheers! Siebrand@Betawiki १७:४०, ७ October २००७ (UTC)

Wikimedia Indian chpater

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As you might be aware, we are planning to start an India chapter of the Wikimedia Foundation. Please see Wikimedia India for details. We're currently working on the draft of bylaws. If you are interested, please join the discussion on meta, and subscribe to the wikimediaindia-l mailing list. Utcursch १७:३०, १० December २००७ (UTC)

Bot flag requests

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JhsBot

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Hi! I would like to apply for a bot flag for my bot, JhsBot. It is an interwii bot running on the pywikipedia framework, so it's almost waterproof. It already has bot status in several Wikipedias, among them the English, Norwegian (Bokmål and Nynorsk), Swedish, Arabic and Hebrew Wikipedias, to mention some. Jon Harald Søby २०:०३, २३ April २००७ (UTC)

Done. —Pathoschild ०२:५४:५५, १२ March २००९ (UTC)

PipepBot

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Hello! I ask for permission to run my interwiki bot PipepBot here, and to get a bot flag for it.

  • Operator: it:User:Pipep
  • Purpose: Interwiki
  • Software: Pywikipedia
  • Have bot flag at: als, am, an, ar, az, bat-smg, be-x-old, bn, bs, ca, ceb, cs, cv, da, en, eo, et, fo, fur, fy, ga, hr, id, is, ka, ksh, la, lb, li, lv, mk, ml, nap, nds, nds-nl, nn, no, pms, roa-tara, ru-sib, scn, simple, sl, sr, sv, th, tl, uk, vec, zea
  • Details: Interwiki using Pywikipediabot. It mostly runs manually assisted. May run automatically in some cases.

Thank you! --it:User:Pipep ०७:२८, १२ August २००७ (UTC)

Done. —Pathoschild ०१:१३, २ September २००७ (UTC)
Thank you! it:User:Pipep ०५:४४, २ September २००७ (UTC)
Already done. —Pathoschild ०३:०५:०६, १२ March २००९ (UTC)

SieBot

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Please give a bot bit to SieBot, so it will not flood your RC as it adds interwiki links using pywikipedia's interwiki.py. SieBot is active on 200 Wikipedias. See the user page of the bot for more details, or check a complete overview of its activities here. Cheers! Siebrand (talk) Siebrand १६:२०, १८ August २००७ (UTC)

Already done. —Pathoschild ०३:१०:४५, १२ March २००९ (UTC)

BotMultichill

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Hi, i request a bot bit for BotMultichill.

  • Botmaster : Multichill
  • Bot's name : BotMultichill
  • List of botflags on others wikipedias: about 100+ atm (see meta:User:Multichill for the current list)
  • Purpose: Interwiki (pywikipedia)
  • Technical details : BotMultichill is an interwiki bot starting at the Dutch wikipedia. The bot uses the pywikipedia framework and runs day and night in autonomous mode. Sometimes the bot will run in manual assisted mode to solve interwiki conflicts. Multichill १४:२६, ६ September २००७ (UTC)
Already done. —Pathoschild ०३:११:४५, १२ March २००९ (UTC)

DragonBot

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Hi, i request a bot bit for DragonBot.

  • Botmaster : Jacob.jose
  • Bot's name : DragonBot
  • List of botflags on others wikipedias: Malayalam(ml), English(en), Simple English(simple), Samogitian(bat-smg), Bengali(bn), Manipuri(bpy), Telugu(te), Russian(ru), Italian(it), Norwegian(no), Danish(da), Turkish(tr), Albanian(sq), Volapük(vo), Swedish(sv), Tamil(ta), German(de), Japanese(ja), Arabic(ar), Esperanto(eo)
  • Purpose: Interwiki (pywikipedia)
  • Technical details : Interwiki bot starting from South Asian languages. Runs mostly in autonomous mode under supervision. I would like to request a bot flag. Thanks! --DragonBot १३:३४, २० October २००७ (UTC)
Already done. —Pathoschild ०३:१२:०२, १२ March २००९ (UTC)

AlleborgoBot

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Hi, i request a bot flag for AlleborgoBot

  • Operator: Alleborgo
  • Automatic or Manually Assisted: Automatic, in "-autonomous" mode. Sometimes the bot will run in manual assisted mode to solve interwiki conflicts.
  • Programming Language(s): Pywikipedia framework daily updated to the last SVN version
  • Function Summary: interwiki
  • Already has a bot flag in: ar, am, an, ast, az, bar, bat-smg, bg, br, bn, bpy, bs, ca, ceb, cs, cv, da, de, el, en, eo, es, et, eu, fa, fi, fiu-vro, fr, frp, fy, ga, gl, he, hr, hsb, ht, hu, hy, id, is, it, iu, ja, jv, ka, kk, ksh, ku, lb, li, lmo, ln, lt, lv, mk, mi, ml, mr, ms, mt, nap, nds, nds-nl, nl, nn, no, pl, pms, ps, pt, ro, roa-tara, ru, sco, sh, sk, simple, sl, sq, sr, su, sv, ta, tg, th, to, tr, tt, udm, uk, ur, vec, vi, vls, vo, zh, zh-classical, zh-min-nan, zh-yue. On it.wiki has done more than 65000 edit.

Thanks --AlleborgoBot १९:५८, ३ November २००७ (UTC)

AlleborgoBot has the flag now, thank you. --AlleborgoBot १९:१७, २८ November २००७ (UTC)

Purbo T

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Hi, I'd like to request a bot flag for Purbo_T (contribs)

Thank you! --Purodha Blissenbach २२:५०, १४ February २००८ (UTC)

Already done. —Pathoschild ०३:१३:१४, १२ March २००९ (UTC)

Synthebot

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Dear all, this is to request a bot flag for Synthebot. Its technical information is summarized below.

  • Operator: Julian Mendez
  • Automatic or Manually Assisted: mostly automatic in autonomous mode; sometimes manually assisted to solve interwiki conflicts
  • Programming Language(s): pywikipedia (source code)
  • Function Summary: interwiki links
  • Already has a bot flag on: global bot running on more than 200 wikipedias.

Further technical information is available on its main page. Thank you in advance. Regards, --Julian १७:५२, १० December २००८ (UTC)

Not done; a local bot flag is no longer needed. This is a global bot, and this wiki recently enabled global bots. —Pathoschild ०३:१३:५१, १२ March २००९ (UTC)

Bot policy

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Hello. To facilitate steward granting of bot access, I suggest implementing the standard bot policy on this wiki. In particular, this policy allows stewards to automatically flag known interlanguage linking bots (if this page says that is acceptable), which form the vast majority of such requests. The policy also enables global bots on this wiki (if this page says that is acceptable), which are trusted bots that will be given bot access on every wiki that allows global bots.

This policy makes bot access requesting much easier for local users, operators, and stewards. To implement it we only need to create a redirect to this page from Project:Bot policy, and add a line at the top noting that it is used here. Please read the text at m:Bot policy before commenting. If you object, please say so; I hope to implement in one week if there is no objection, since it is particularly written to streamline bot requests on wikis with little or no community interested in bot access requests. Luckas Blade १४:४९, १ March २००९ (UTC)

Implemented. —Pathoschild २२:००:०२, ११ March २००९ (UTC)

Small request

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Hello! I am a Polish wikipedian and I would like to ask you for your help - writing a new article about former Polish President who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1983 – Lech Wałęsa. I have looked for his biography in your Wikipedia but without success. Polish Wikipedians will be grateful for your help. Thank you so much in advance! PS you can find the English version of the article here. Best wishes from Poland, Patrol110 १२:१९, २५ December २००९ (UTC)

Wikimania Scholarships

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The call for applications for Wikimania Scholarships to attend Wikimania 2010 in Gdansk, Poland (July 9-11) is now open. The Wikimedia Foundation offers Scholarships to pay for selected individuals' round trip travel, accommodations, and registration at the conference. To apply, visit the Wikimania 2010 scholarships information page, click the secure link available there, and fill out the form to apply. For additional information, please visit the Scholarships information and FAQ pages:

Yours very truly, Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation

Request

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Hi. I am a Wikipedian from Nepali Wikipedia. We want to add your language in List of Languages on Nepali Wikipedia. To add your language in List of Languages please click here. Thank you. --User:Nepaboy०१:५६, २८ April २०१० (UTC)

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Hello!

The Wikimedia Foundation recently updated the official Wikipedia globe. We realize that a lot of projects have never had a localized logo in their native language, so we are making sure that we create logos for every Wikipedia project that we have. The only issue is: we can't figure out what should be on your localized logo. :-)

Could you please provide a translation for the following?

  • Wikipedia
  • The Free Encyclopedia

Please put the translation on my Meta talk page. Thank you! Cbrown1023 discussion ००:५२, २५ May २०१० (UTC)

RfC: Indic Sysops

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Kindly take a moment to read the Indic Sysop proposal in meta and express your opinion. Thanks --Jyothis १९:३०, १५ October २०१० (UTC)

2010 Fundraising Is Almost Here

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Hello Wikipedians, I am Theo and I am working for the Wikimedia Foundation during the 2010 Fundraiser. My job is to be the liaison between your community and the Foundation. This year's fundraiser is intended to be a collaborative and global effort; we recognize that banner messages which may perform well in the United States don't necessarily translate well, or appeal to international audiences.

I'm contacting you as I am currently looking for translators who are willing to contribute to this project by helping translate and localize messages into different languages and suggesting messages that would appeal to your readers on the Fundraising Meta Page. We've started the setup on meta for both banner submission, statistical analysis, and grouping volunteers together.
Use the talk pages on meta, talk to your local communities, talk to others, talk to us, and add your feedback to the proposed messages as well! I look forward to working with you during this year's fundraiser. If someone could translate this message I would really appreciate it so that everyone is able to understand our goals and contribute to this year's campaign.
Theo (WMF) २०:४५, २० October २०१० (UTC)

Bot task approval and Bot flag for User:TinucherianBot

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I will be using my bot account User:TinucherianBot to deliver the future Wikimedia India newsletter notices to the individual user talk pages ( Similar to the Wikipedia Signpost) in English & different Indian/Indic language Wikipedias. The newsletter will be only available in English as of now and will be mostly hosted on Wikimedia.in

The account already has a bot task approval on English Wikipedia and has over 131K edits globally .The bot needs approval and bot flags in the respective language Wikipedias for this task. The talk page delivery is only for the users who opt in for. The opt in list pages will be created soon.

For more details, see http://www.wikimedia.in/wiki/Newsletter#Approvals_for_Newsletter_delivery and announcement on Wikimedia India mailing list

Bot details :

  • Bot name : User:TinucherianBot
  • Operator : Tinucherian
  • Automatic or Manually Assisted : Manually configured and automatically run under supervision.
  • Programming Language(s) : C# , Auto Wiki Browser
  • Function Summary : Delivery the future Wikimedia India newsletter notices
  • Already has a bot flag on : en.wiki ( as of now)

I am requesting the approval of the bot task by this Wikicommunity and also bot flag for the bot account. Tinucherian ०९:३८, ४ March २०११ (UTC)

It will be great if the bot flag is granted for this task. Thanks in advance - Tinucherian ११:०५, १७ April २०११ (UTC)

Wikipedia in Tatar

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Dear friends, may I ask you to add a hyperlink to our Tatar Wikipedia (http://tt.wikipedia.org) to yourr Front page. Tatars - are turkic nation living in Tatarstan Republic, second biggest nation in Russian Federation. hope to hear from you soon. sincerely yours, Muhtac २२:०१, २० March २०११ (UTC)

Proposal to close Kashmiri Wiktionary

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Hello. This is a message to inform you that there is currently a proposal to close the Kashmiri Wiktionary project. The discussion can be found here. Thank you. TeleComNasSprVen ०६:४६, ३१ March २०११ (UTC)

Call for image filter referendum

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The Wikimedia Foundation, at the direction of the Board of Trustees, will be holding a vote to determine whether members of the community support the creation and usage of an opt-in personal image filter, which would allow readers to voluntarily screen particular types of images strictly for their own account.

Further details and educational materials will be available shortly. The referendum is scheduled for 12-27 August, 2011, and will be conducted on servers hosted by a neutral third party. Referendum details, officials, voting requirements, and supporting materials will be posted at Meta:Image filter referendum shortly.

Sorry for delivering you a message in English. Please help translate the pages on the referendum on Meta and join the translators mailing list.

For the coordinating committee,
Philippe (WMF)
Cbrown1023
Risker
Mardetanha
PeterSymonds
Robert Harris

Invite to WikiConference India 2011

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Hi Community Portal,

The First WikiConference India is being organized in Mumbai and will take place on 18-20 November 2011.
You can see our Official website, the Facebook event and our Scholarship form.


But the activities start now with the 100 day long WikiOutreach.

As you are part of WikiMedia India community we invite you to be there for conference and share your experience. Thank you for your contributions.

We look forward to see you at Mumbai on 18-20 November 2011


Please forward to relevant folks in the community. If you want the bot to do the job please sign up at [3] --Naveenpf ٠٥:٢١, ٦ August ٢٠١١ (UTC)

HiW-Bot

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  • Bot  : HiW-Bot
  • Operator  : Hedwig in Washington
  • Automatic or Manually Assisted : automatic
  • Programming Language(s)  : Python (pywikipedia), daily update
  • Function Summary  : Interwiki
  • Already has a bot flag (Y/N)  : Yes, please see here
  • Function Details  : just using the standard interwiki.py

I humbly request bot status on this wiki in order to maintain Interwiki. Thank you --Hedwig in Washington ١٢:٥٥, ٢٤ October ٢٠١١ (UTC)

https://ks.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=وِکیٖپیٖڈیا:Community_Portal/مَقبَر&oldid=49150 پؠٹھٕ اِستِمال کۄٚرمُت